Don't show controls on phone

[StephenB]

I've planned a Christmas event where you answer quiz questions to determine which control number to go to next. There's an all controls map with 28 controls on it, but only 14 of these are real and in the KML file. The idea is that when you look at the map, you see controls all over the place, but if you get all the questions right, only those controls will punch and your GPS trace will draw out a Christmas-themed shape.

Unfortunately, the controls are shown on your phone when you pick go to start which immediately gives away the shape. The ideal solution would be to be able to hide the controls, but just show the start location. However, this does not seem to be an option (uploading a KMZ with a solid colour the same as controls would be a huge hack too).

As far as I can see, the only other way to run the event would be do it as a scatter course which will mean defining all the controls (dummies included) and not having any ability to enforce getting the controls in the right order. As people must not have to go to all controls, I would probably have to use PXAS14, but I'm concerned about what will happen if they punch (or run past) the dummy controls - I've had runners on such courses have their runs stop punching when they reached the specified number of controls.

Any better ideas?

[Peter Effeney]

It's difficult to have MapRun support all the innovative ideas that people can come up with.

Having said that, I do have a feature request for an option that is: don't display controls (until they are punched), which may be what you could use in the future.

A couple of ideas for now:
- As you suggest, you could hide the controls with a "purple patch"(!) on the map. For an example see this event in MapRun: Victoria/RunFree/ARDF/ARDF - Wattle Park - June 2020. You would also provide an appropriate printed map.

Otherwise, you'd need to rely on trust (but it is Christmas):
- If enough people have Garmin watches only let people run with MapRunG + printed map, or
- Put a PIN on the event, assuming an attended start, provide the PIN, have the runner enter the PIN, then drop their phone into a sealed envelope. They need to return with the envelope still sealed. (Sorry about taking phone calls during the run).

Peter

[StephenB]

The obscuring with purple in your example almost works, but as the numbers are overprinted they are still visible.

I don't see any interest in our area by participants wanting to use maps on their phones, so it is always printed maps. I appreciate that new features cannot change overnight. So, can I give a +1 to "don't display controls (until they are punched)" and perhaps we can use that for Christmas 2021.

This is very much an unattended event and is only a bit of Christmas fun. I've carefully picked the 'wrong' controls so that they are in a different direction and should not be run past en route to the right control. I've decided to stick with PXAS14 event which also has the side effect that even if someone downloads the KML directly, they don't see the design (such as it is!):

http://maprun.uk/event.php/1399

[MichaelRaz]

I really like this enhancement  feature as it provides more value than just this type of event.  It forces users to use a paper map and makes it easy to limit users who might just download the event and run it when they are not members (for example).  This method would not mess up RouteGadget display after as the work-around does.  

Stephen, I not sure what you mean by "but as the numbers are overprinted they are still visible"?  Looking at the example Peter listed, the colour match is precise so the controls and  numbers do not seem to show at all.  Perhaps some phones handle this differently.  I played with this a bit on a check site and, although it took a few tries to match the palette, it seemed to work really well and, as per the example, allows you to keep the start control visible (which would likely need to be an option with the enhancement feature under discussion).

Michael

[Peter Effeney]

Michael,

Thanks for the post.
I'm thinking that in the "Hidden Controls" option, Start and Finish would always be visible.
So I would have a setting:
- Show Controls: Normal (default), Hide until punched; Hide completely  [this does not apply to S1 and F1]
But can you think of a scenario where I'd also need another setting:
- Apply "Show Controls" Setting to S1 and F1: Off (Default), On.
ie so that S1 and F1 can be hidden either until punched or completely?

Peter

[StephenB]

MichaelRaz wrote

Stephen, I not sure what you mean by "but as the numbers are overprinted they are still visible"?  Looking at the example Peter listed, the colour match is precise so the controls and numbers do not seem to show at all.  Perhaps some phones handle this differently.

On my Samsung, the control circles were not visible, but the numbers were as they were a slightly different colour. I'm not sure why, I'd have thought the vector overlay would have used a single colour.

Peter Effeney wrote

I'm thinking that in the "Hidden Controls" option, Start and Finish would always be visible.
So I would have a setting:
- Show Controls: Normal (default), Hide until punched; Hide completely  [this does not apply to S1 and F1]
But can you think of a scenario where I'd also need another setting:
- Apply "Show Controls" Setting to S1 and F1: Off (Default), On.
ie so that S1 and F1 can be hidden either until punched or completely?

I cannot think of a scenario where you'd want to hide S1/F1, but perhaps I'm not thinking hard enough. Having S1 displayed along with your current GPS location before you start is quite handy a) as a GPS test and b) to make sure you keep away from it until you are ready to start

[MichaelRaz]

Easy for me to say as I'm not doing the work but I suspect as soon as you implemented this without the ability to also also turn off S/F, someone would come up with a requirement to do this.  

As I mentioned above I could see the value in having a mode that basically did not show anything to do with the map - as this would bring it in line with MapRunG event (but phone punching) with no electronic map available nor any display of controls punched (bring it more in line with a paper map event and the phone  replaces the SI).  With the enhancements discussed on the other settings, this could be done using current options:  Setting map overlay OFF and not turning punched controls green (but both of these would need to be lockable by the admin).  Or another option to meet this would be to disable the first of the three pages on the phone display (simple for the admin but less flexibility) - no idea which is easier to implement.  

Just my thoughts!

Michael Raz

[Peter Effeney]

Michael

Thanks for that. I think you are right re S1/F1, so I should include that option from the outset.

Also I like the idea of a no-map scenario - and I think I would do that by disabling the Map tab, and having the main running screen open with the "dashboard" instead.

Peter

[pfoulkes]

This sounds like a good enhancement to me too.

In the meantime, we have been experimenting with a pink map.  As others have noted, there is a subtle difference between the control number colour and the control circle colour when viewed in MapRunF on the phone.  We have matched the map colour to the control number colour.  The pattern of control circles is only barely visible and of minimal use without the control numbers.

It's important to lock the event at set-up to prevent people adjusting the map view/opacity which would allow them to view control positions/numbers on the aerial view.

We are planning an event shortly where people running on the night will be given paper maps.  Other people can print the maps themselves over the following week and run it at their own convenience.
If printing their own map, we can't prevent people from planning a route, so we are giving some bonus points to anyone running on the night.

To prevent later runners from viewing the routes of the on-the-night runners, I'm considering publishing the event twice (with different names so different pass codes). Once for people on the night with a viewable map - so they can look at their route when finishing as normal.  The other with a pink map, so people running it later can't examine the routes of others before they do their own run.  They won't be able to view the routes of anyone running it on the night at all as they won't have the pass code.

One downside of this approach is that there would be two sets of results for two identical courses.

Would it be possible to merge those results into a single event later, so after the week is up we had both sets of results on a single (visible) map and we could delete the pink map version?

[Peter Effeney]

At this stage, you would need to export the results (.csv), merge  and display the combined results outside of MapRun. This is similar to what others do where the MapRun event is part of some broader competition.

In addition to the to-from date ranges (for event and result availability), I'm considering an option to allow organisers to remove the map tab for an event. That is, in such cases, the main run screen would only have two tabs: Dashboard and GPS list. (ie no map/course display on the phone... until finished).

In that way, the map and course will be solely based on whatever printed maps are provided.

[pfoulkes]

Thanks Peter
I suspected that would be the answer on the results, but thank you for confirming.
Having an option to remove the map tab would be useful.

Is there a way to prevent people from seeing other people's results until after they have completed their own run?
This would primarily be for events which stay open for a week or two, where participants run at a time that suits them.
It would be good if they could be prevented from examining other people's routes before running themselves.
Currently, as soon as someone has the pass code for the event they can see other people's scores, look at which controls other runners visited, in which order, and view their routes on the map.
It would be useful if there was an option to prevent people from viewing results until after they had run themselves, or possibly limiting people to viewing only their own run.
Then when the event window was closed, the results could be opened up for all to view.

[Peter Effeney]

Peter

There is a discussion in another thread  about a proposal to introduce date/time ranges for:
- participating in an event
- displaying the results table
- displaying the tracks.
This could extend to other factors such as:
- printing the map (if we offer printing a map directly from MapRunF).

This can (hopefully) help Admins deal with matters such as:
- closing off an event where access permissions are limited to a particular period, or there is a firm cut-off for competing etc etc.
- separating "permanent courses" from "normal" events (the former sunset date of +3 years(?) and the latter with say 6mths/12mths(?))
- holding result display back to a desired time - for competitive neutrality (or other reasons)
- allowing auto archiving of events, result tables and tracks. (eg results table displayed for 3-5 years(?), tracks displayed for 1 year(?))

All settings to have default values... so no extra effort would be required for "standard" events. Default values could be changed at the time of publishing an event, and also afterwards (eg extending how long results are displayed).... except that the date range for participation for a runner would be the settings as at the time they "Selected" (ie downloaded) the event.

Comments welcome.

Peter