Feature request for Scatter/Score-O

[WithaMap]

I admit this is a bit of an odd one, but I am trying to make this work.  "This" is Scrabble.   I set this up as a scatter (since everyone goes in different directions depending on the word they are trying to spell) and all works except that when you try to use a code more than once, it has that code you used a 2nd or 3rd time as an extra control and puts it on the bottom.   I need to convert the codes to letters but when I do that they will be in order with the exception of the "extra control"

[Peter Effeney]

Bruce,

Have you looked at the API we have to allow you to link to MapRun Results?
See: https://maprunners.weebly.com/access-to-results.html

If you use a Google Sheet linked to the MapRun Results of your event, you will see a list of the control Id (and times) of the controls visited.
In the Google Sheet you can convert the control Ids to letters. Also you can use the times of the punches to sort all of the punches into the order they were visited in. (This will bring the "Extra" punches back into time order). See the example below, which shows some Extra visits to control 42:



In the last line you see 42 was punched at 802 secs after start so it falls between punches 43 and 36.
Your sheet could compare each result to the expected word - and give an OK or MisPunch status.

You can present your "Custom" Scrabble results directly in the MapRun version 7 App by providing a link to your Google Sheet.

I think this approach can give you a good solution. But let me know if you have issues/questions.

Peter

[WithaMap]

Peter,

No I have not but will definitely try this out.  I guess I missed this update.  Thank you and I withdraw my request!  

[Peter Effeney]

Bruce,

All good. Let us know if you can't get it to do what you need.

Peter

[MichaelRaz]

WithaMap,

I could easily throw together an Excel macro that would take the two main columns (pasted into a sheet), and 'de-extra' the extra controls, re-sort by time and then map them to the letter list.  You would still need to do the more fundamental API work to get the results as described in Peter's link.  It would only take me an hour (hopefully).  i offer this having no idea how much excel macro writing experience you have or experience with Google sheets.

One issue if I understand your approach.  It would seem to me that there might be a number of actual Extra controls punched depending on routes so the approach here will legitimize all the Extra punches leaving the resulting words with extra characters mixed in.  Some manual validation would be needed.

let me know.

[WithaMap]

Peter,  I have knowledge with anything related to Orienteering and Mapping programs, drone, etc but very little with Spreadsheets and APIs.   I thought I could figure it out with your helpful instructions but I just did not understand it. Was going to ask a favor from friends who have knowledge but if you can do it,  that would be great. I wanted to test it out this weekend but it can wait as well.    I am not sure how the extra punches would work.  I know that on SI units, you have to wait about 4 seconds before punching a second time immediately afterwards (Zipper).   That is not a big deal,  but having the extra punch at the bottom would create a result like Ziper(p).  Like you said, I might have to do the last adjustment manually and should be able to do that just by looking.  There are also values associated with each letter (Same as in Scrabble).  The Maze Scatter/Score would be a short timeframe
 This could either be done in a Small space like the Maze, but it could also add an extra twist for Score-O on traditional park space.      Thanks for helping out Peter.  I did test this out on MapRun already and it works otherwise

[MichaelRaz]

Not sure if you are directing this to me or Peter??  I'll assume it was me ???!!
Obviously I can't do anything to help with underlying MapRun functions (nor would Peter want me to be coding any of this).  Happy to help with the results bit as much as I can as this is just a bit of processing.  

This href="https://maprunners.weebly.com/punching-controls.html">Punching 
describes how punching is done which immediately causing an issue with your plan for words that have double letters like 'zipper' as the second P cannot be punched until another control is punched.  I can think of a few ways to get around this depending on the situation - and I'm not 100% sure of the environment.

1.  Is this inside (no GPS) or a limited sized area with GPS?  
2. Are you using flags so could use QR codes?
3. In this specific case is this just a one off event  (as this determines just how automatic you want the process to be, although could come later).
4.  As I mentioned earlier, how do you control double punches as people just run past other locations? This will result in a number of extra letters mixed in which are not part of the word. Especially in the small maze you mention.
5.  Do you have excel and, if so, Windows or MAC?

You could just ignore double letters so full results for 'ziper'. an example of 'piper' would then be processed as the Extra Code and come out correctly.

Not sure how you are determining words but you could have necessary duplicate letters on the map (different control codes) so the person would need to find another p in the above examples (this has the advantage that a 6 letter word with a double letter is just as hard to get as a 6 letter word with no double letter, although harder to map.
Using QR codes could also be a solution as you could have two different codes at the same location (mapped to the same letter) with no GPS punching.

As far as processing - this is likely the easy part as it is just a bit of could to use the Extra controls and re-sort based on time (as Peter suggested) then map to the letters (and point score if you want).  The last step just needs a lookup table.

[WithaMap]

Sorry Michael Was in a rush to get out to made a failed attempt at a putting a message together before I left I will give you some answers here from my end and read the link you provided regarding punches Not sure if you are directing this to me or Peter?? I'll assume it was me ???!! Obviously I can't do anything to help with underlying MapRun functions (nor would Peter want me to be coding any of this). Happy to help with the results bit as much as I can as this is just a bit of processing. This href="https://maprunners.weebly.com/punching-controls.html">Punching describes how punching is done which immediately causing an issue with your plan for words that have double letters like 'zipper' as the second P cannot be punched until another control is punched. I can think of a few ways to get around this depending on the situation - and I'm not 100% sure of the environment. 1. Is this inside (no GPS) or a limited sized area with GPS? NO GPS. All QR Codes or SportIdent Fingersticks.
2. Are you using flags so could use QR codes? Yes, I will have small flags and a board that will a rectangular backing board to QR codes among other things
3. In this specific case is this just a one off event (as this determines just how automatic you want the process to be, although could come later). This is a part of other courses in a Maze that would be run a few times per year.
4. As I mentioned earlier, how do you control double punches as people just run past other locations? This will result in a number of extra letters mixed in which are not part of the word. Especially in the small maze you mention. That would be on assumption that GPS is being used but the area is too small for that.
5. Do you have excel and, if so, Windows or MAC? Windows 11 on PC for course design with Purple Pen. Android Tablet for results.
You could just ignore double letters so full results for 'ziper'. an example of 'piper' would then be processed as the Extra Code and come out correctly.

Not sure how you are determining words but you could have necessary duplicate letters on the map (different control codes) so the person would need to find another p in the above examples (this has the advantage that a 6 letter word with a double letter is just as hard to get as a 6 letter word with no double letter, although harder to map. This is a good idea. I think I thought that out and figured there might be too many points but I could make it work. Making sure I understand what you are saying, there could in addition to 26 letters, there would also be some double letter controls such as SS, TT, PP etc. And those would be the same value as a single letter (Whatever the value is in Scrabble).

The words are determined by the competitor. There is a time limit and they would have to make english words as they go on the course. There can be more than one word. An undermined time limit would be put in place such as maybe 5 minutes
Using QR codes could also be a solution as you could have two different codes at the same location (mapped to the same letter) with no GPS punching.

As far as processing - this is likely the easy part as it is just a bit of could to use the Extra controls and re-sort based on time (as Peter suggested) then map to the letters (and point score if you want). The last step just needs a lookup table.

[MichaelRaz]

Given this information I may only be able to help in a limited capacity.  As far as the event goes, I suspect you may have some ideas to change things so it will work within the MapRun (and SI) environment.  I am not a scrabble player so don't really know the rules but, to me, the easiest would be to ignore the need to double punch for a duplicate letter (supper) so a six letter word in this case would be only worth whatever the 5 letters are - might not be the official rules but a lot easier than adding extra control letters everywhere.  Given the focus of GPS punching for MapRun, and the complexity to handle multiple GPS punches when in the same area, I can't see this changing anytime soon.  Perhaps there are options for QR punching but again, I can't see it soon enough. I can think of some other options such a we touched upon with each location contains two control codes for two different letters (the alphabet is doubled up).  That would provide some additional options "which 'p' do I go to" but maybe a bit too confusing. Obviously this is really up to you.

As far as the API goes, the linked Google Spreadsheet is actually very easy to use.  As per instructions, make your own copy and then take a look at the tabs.  The example already has three event and a summary tab as examples.  The Event Template tab is ready to use but putting in your event name and clicking the Fetch button/section (the other tabs could be deleted if you wanted to clean things up). Give it a try with an event you have already run.

The problem is the custom scoring.  Given your description of an Android for results, you cannot run a excel windows laptop and you likely want the results quickly, on-site.  I have not really done any scripting in Google Sheets so not familiar with the macro capability.  I have already done up a Windows Excel spreadsheet that will convert the PuchControlsids  and Punchtimeafterstartsecs fields to the words and point as talked about but this is currently stand-alone. Although I could integrate it into my excel import spreadsheet, this does not help if you need to get results on site.  Note that it is easy to cut and paste the two fields from Google sheets to the excel sheet and then paste back as the scrabble results into Google.

[WithaMap]

Thanks Michael

I will look into the Letter for doubling up and see how that can work.  I really can work  with my PC laptop.
I was just focusing on what I am using now but a windows laptop works just fine.  I might add that this is not really Scrabble.  There are no rules here.  Only the ones that I make up and work with.  Giving it a Scrabble theme just makes it look good and there are some similarities.  I probably should not use that word as one other person said that I was not playing by the rules.  It is an idea and in my head works.  I just need a couple of things to work around for the results to spell out words.  Plus there is some flexibility (like making a rule that the words they pick cannot contain consecutive letters) or just putting 15 or 16 letters out there.  I think the most important part is the scoring (Total of letters worth) and the results that show the word spelled out (even if it is missing the consecutive letters).  I am going to play around with it a bit more and try to figure out the API.  I am certain it can work.   Just have to work around these minor details!    Thanks  Bruce

[MichaelRaz]

Bruce OK, some good news - I have ported over the excel script to the Google Sheet template. All sample fake data but good proof of concept.  You can see that the 'Extra' is removed, the controls sorted by actual time (to merge the Extra ones in) and the words and Point added up.  I still have some work to do to better integrate it and figure out how to deploy a copy but even as is, it could be a cut and paste operation from an android tablet.

[Peter Effeney]

Bruce,

Thanks Michael for your valuable contribution.

Bruce, a couple of points from me:
- Until Michael mentioned it, I had overlooked considering the issue of consecutive duplicate punches. (ie double letters). For a scatter course, MapRun puts punches of controls that have already been visited at the end of the list with "(Extra)" appended. You can re-sort the controls into punching order, BUT, MapRun does not punch the same control twice in sequence. This applies to all modes of punching (GPS, QRcode, and NRC). So a word like DEEP (which was say controls 31, 32, 32, 33) would only punch as 31,32,33 (ie DEP).
There is no simple way around this that I can think of, expect to say, that the physical challenge of punching 31, 32, 32, 33 vs 31,32,33 is the same (ie no extra running to punch a duplicate even if this was allowed).

- I recommend Google Sheets. The scripting language is a full-blown language based on JavaScript. The processing effectively happens within the web browser, so it works on all devices (Windows, Mac, Mobile).

- If it's just a one-off event, you could keep the Google Sheets scripting to just simply re-sorting controls into time order and converting control Id to letters.... Or you could be elaborate..

Peter

[Peter Effeney]

Bruce, Michael,

My last response overlapped with Michael's response.

Well done to Michael.

The next step with Michael's Sheet could be to ensure the final version is shared (to anyone with the link) and then provide this link as the results table. (This can be included as "Custom" results in MapRun version 7).

Michael could share a link to his current Google Sheet to Bruce, and Bruce could make a copy and make any updates, that share the link to his version.

Peter

[MichaelRaz]

I had boring stuff I should have been doing so this was a great excuse.  I'm amazed at how well ChatGPT converted the VBA to GS.  It took me about an hour to fix up some errors but considering I have never touched JavaScript or GS before this was unexpected.

Regarding the double letters, besides the other suggestions (double up the alphabet), ignore - my Son suggested a central "null control" that you could punch and then return to get the second letter (easy to add to the script so it is ignored).  It would make some more route/word choice options.

If this is a one or two time thing then I will not try to better integrate the added function.  It would work now by simply copy and paste the two columns to "my" new sheet and run the script then paste/append the words and points into the original results page. I still need to figure out a couple of things.  The 'RUN' button on the main page will not link to the script so I need to open up the scripting window and run it from there.  I'll play with it a bit more.

[WithaMap]

Both of you are amazing.    I will test this out tonight once I get home and then hopefully soon get some willing lab rats to test it.    This is not a one off thing btw,   I set up the maze a few times per year and this could be part of it.  This is awesome.  

[MichaelRaz]

I won't have the google sheet ready by tonight - just a heads up!

[WithaMap]

Ok.    Will be ready!

[MichaelRaz]

Bruce, Sent you an email last night through the forum contact.  let me know if you got it.

[WithaMap]

Yes I did.. I sent you a reply back.  Will do that again now .